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- <li><em>date</em>: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:08:22 -0400</li>
- <li><em>from</em>: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)</li>
- <li><em>in-reply-to</em>: <<a href="msg00190.html">[email protected]</a>></li>
- <li><em>references</em>: <1124109420.5818.9.camel@localhost> <<a href="msg00170.html">[email protected]</a>> <<a href="msg00176.html">[email protected]</a>> <<a href="msg00188.html">[email protected]</a>> <<a href="msg00190.html">[email protected]</a>></li>
- <li><em>subject</em>: [ale] Cobb Laptop Deal</li>
> Mark Wright wrote:
>
>>
>> On Aug 15, 2005, at 6:17 PM, Geoffrey wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Mark Wright wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I am glad the deal fell apart even though I am a former Evangelist
>>>> member. ( Guy Kawasaki's old mailing list to promote mac info
>>>> back a
>>>> few years)
>>>>
>>>> I think that computers in schools are just another impediment to a
>>>> good
>>>> education. I believe there is no teen in the metro area that
>>>> cannot
>>>> operate a windows PC currently or passably given a day to learn.
>>>> Putting PCs in schools unless, they are used just to teach
>>>> coding or
>>>> hardware design just takes away time from learning to read,
>>>> write and
>>>> do math.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is just patently false. I was totally against the cobb
>>> computer
>>> debacle, but the computers in schools these days are used for a
>>> lot more
>>> then 'teach coding or hardware design.' You don't even get the
>>> option
>>> to take such classes until late in middle school. So what do
>>> you thing
>>> the students are doing with the computers in grades k-5?
>>>
>>
>> They remove some of the grading burden for teachers. All Cobb and
>> Cherokee grade schools use their computers mostly for a program
>> called
>> Accelerated Reader. It was a "must have" at a private school I
>> consulted for. The teachers at this school went on and on about
>> how it
>> helped their students learn to read. I was really excited to see
>> this
>> revolutionary teaching system that I was being paid to install.
>> I was
>> never so disappointed. It is nothing but a database of questions
>> for
>> books the school has to buy for their library. The kids read the
>> books
>> and then answer the questions on the computer. The computer
>> automates
>> the grading and performance tracking for the teacher. The computer
>> does zero for the children.
>>
>
> Then you must not have much experience with the Cobb school system.
> Full disclosure, my wife has been teaching in Cobb for 15 years. I
> KNOW
> what they use the computers for and you are well off the mark. Grant
> it, a lot depends on the teachers, but then they get no training
> what so
> ever.
>
> I'm not saying the system is perfect, but I get real tired of folks
> bashing the whole system because you have a hand full of lousy
> teachers
> and a boat load of apathetic parents.
>
>
>> Years later my second oldest nearly failed reading because she
>> found it
>> too tedious to go in her spare time to the library and take the easy
>> tests even though she read the books. I suppose more PC's in the
>> school would have given her less of an excuse but so would a
>> teacher to
>> deliver the few questions.
>>
>
> So you're telling me that the teacher used accelerated reader for
> grading purposes. I don't know what county that was, but it is not
> used
> in this way in Cobb. It is a tool to provide initiative to read
> and to
> enhance reading. Recognition is placed on those who obtain the
> most points.
>
> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.cobbk12.org/~tritt/acreader.htm";>http://www.cobbk12.org/~tritt/acreader.htm</a>
"The Accelerated Reader, or AR, is a learning information system that
enables freestanding computer-assisted assessment of student
comprehension of ?real? books."
That is still just a grading system. It does not teach. You read a
book and take a test that the computer delivers and tally's. You can
call it a "learning information system" if you like but all it does
is free the teacher from having to read the book or grade the questions.
> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.cobbk12.org/~frey/ARC.htm";>http://www.cobbk12.org/~frey/ARC.htm</a>
>
>
>> I have been closely involved with computers and schools and I
>> don't see
>> the need. Knowledge gained from a library book usually lasts longer
>> than google answers. I have been to plenty of dog an pony shows for
>> education software and I have also come in a year or two later to
>> replace the dusty unused equipment with yet another "latest answer"
>> for lagging test scores.
>>
>
> Right, if they're not used, how are they going to help? I'm not a big
> fan of educational software, most of it is lousy. But there are good
> ones out there that can make a difference. Further, the teacher must
> not simply rely on the tool. The tool doesn't teach, the teacher
> does.
>
>
>>> Further, you make an assumption that every teen in the metro area
>>> has
>>> access to a computer outside of school, and that is also false.
>>>
>>
>>
>> No I didn't. I just believe with all the electronic toys even the
>> poorest kids in Atlanta have, that adding Windows skills to what they
>> already know is trivial.
>>
>
> You are not talking about the average child. You need to revisit your
> demographic data.
>
>
>>> Don't get me wrong, I don't think the computers in the schools are
>>> properly utilized, but they do a lot more with them then you've
>>> stated.
>>>
>>> I do realize there are all kinds of problems with computers in
>>> schools.
>>> Teachers get little or no training, there is little or no support,
>>> poorly designed network infrastructure...
>>>
>>> Computers can be used as a good educational tool just as books,
>>> chalk
>>> boards, white boards, overhead projectors..... are. In a lot of
>>> cases
>>> they are.
>>>
>>>
>> I think this is conventional wisdom. Computers are expensive, I use
>> one to be more productive therefore my child who needs to learn
>> to read
>> better and master algebra needs one. Besides if our kids aren't
>> getting the grades we want we gotta do something.
>>
>
> Please do not try to patronize me. I know more about this subject
> then
> you could possibly understand. I do not think that slapping a
> computer
> in front of a child is going to make them read better, anymore then
> slapping a book in front of the same child will make them learn math.
>
> The key is, it is a tool. In properly trained hands, it can make a
> difference. If you would like, I will schedule a day where you can
> sit
> in on my wife's class and see how a computer will enhance learning.
I really would like to. My bias is fully admitted for all to see. I
think the king has no clothes. I am a reluctant participant only
because I am not rich enough to write my own rules. I did work for
a private school for 2 years and had to smile and nod approvingly
while PHd's went on an on about ideas that I thought were patently
absurd. I have very close and dear friends who are degreed High
school teachers and a good friend of mine has a district position in
Cherokee County. I am telling you this so you will know that I am
not a lunatic that would cause trouble in you school. My beliefs
about our nations school system is completely heresy to my Aunt who
taught with a PHd at Georgia State until she retired recently. But I
still think I am right and they are wrong. Please show me something
that is good about government run schools. Well, besides the people.
Mark
>
>> I think a computer
>> makes a good carrot in a classroom but not a good tool. That is a
>> general tool such as a pencil or a black board or a book. It makes a
>> good specialized tool. If you want to learn HTML it helps. If you
>> want to add some web resources to a lesson it helps but as a tool to
>> teach math skills it falls way short of a teacher. I have
>> supervised a
>> complete 4th grade curriculum delivered on a PC. It is just a
>> book that
>> can grade itself. The some students did well with it most did not.
>> Most kids need more teacher time.
>>
>
> I do not think that a child can sit in front of a computer for a whole
> year and come out ready for the next grade. A computer is just
> another
> of the many tools available and when used properly, they will enhance
> the learning experience. Can you teach someone algerbra without a
> book?
> Sure, but the proper tools make the learning easier and the teaching
> more effective.
>
>
>>
>> I mentioned the carrot above. The most effective use of computers I
>> have seen was a teacher that let her class play educational games on
>> them if they did there work fast enough. It had to be correct.
>> Mostly
>> the boys in the class were working to get PC time though. the girls
>> needed other incentive.
>>
>
> There are better uses for this tool in the classroom.
>
> --
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale";>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a>
>
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<ul><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>:
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<li><strong><a name="00200" href="msg00200.html">[ale] Cobb Laptop Deal</a></strong>
<ul><li><em>From:</em> esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)</li></ul></li>
</ul></li></ul>
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<ul><li><strong>References</strong>:
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<li><strong><a name="00160" href="msg00160.html">[ale] Cobb Laptop Deal</a></strong>
<ul><li><em>From:</em> jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)</li></ul></li>
<li><strong><a name="00170" href="msg00170.html">[ale] Cobb Laptop Deal</a></strong>
<ul><li><em>From:</em> mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)</li></ul></li>
<li><strong><a name="00176" href="msg00176.html">[ale] Cobb Laptop Deal</a></strong>
<ul><li><em>From:</em> esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)</li></ul></li>
<li><strong><a name="00188" href="msg00188.html">[ale] Cobb Laptop Deal</a></strong>
<ul><li><em>From:</em> mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)</li></ul></li>
<li><strong><a name="00190" href="msg00190.html">[ale] Cobb Laptop Deal</a></strong>
<ul><li><em>From:</em> esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)</li></ul></li>
</ul></li></ul>
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