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- <li><em>date</em>: Mon Jan 3 23:07:26 2005</li>
- <li><em>from</em>: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)</li>
- <li><em>in-reply-to</em>: <[email protected]></li>
- <li><em>references</em>: <[email protected]></li>
- <li><em>subject</em>: [ale] Distro Reply</li>
On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 22:28, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> But you have to understand, that to foster widespread acceptance of the
> Linuxes in the enterprise, we must drop our zealotry to a degree. (I had to
> learn this the hard way, and speak of myself here)
>
> Something Microsoft has been so good at is embrace and extend. In the Linux
> world, we still hav IT managers that were educated in the 60's and 70's and
> view Linux as nothing more than a toy. If instead you approach them with a
> small entry (DNS server, for instance) and provide them all the trappings of
> their paid-for "supported" os, you've won.
>
> It doesn't matter that it isn't GNU/Linux. It doesn't matter that it's
> "Free and Open". What matters to today's IT manager (decreasingly so) is
> that when Linux admin X gets pissed and leaves, he can call company Y to
> support solution Z. That's all he cares about.
>
> Again, from the ENTERPRISE perspective, we're newcomers to this game with
> something to prove.
>
>
> When I was at Our Lady of the Lake hospital, when I arrived in 2001, there
> was *NO* Linux in house. Not desktop, not server. When I left, there was
> RH on RS6000/Power PC, a clustered HIPAA compliant patient radiology records
> system writing to Optical disks running on RH AS 3.x. (Which, incidently,
> was used in the first hospital in America going completely filmless in their
> entire radiology farm) I had 2 DNS servers on IBM 435 machines with over
> 200 days uptime, running on RH 9.x. The IBM p690 Regatta had a RedHat
> partition onboard, and we had Linux 390 on the mainframe. Finally, the
> entire UNIX-based Administration team was running in a 100% linux desktop
> environment. (11 people).
>
>
> ALL SERVING HOSPITAL PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENTS.
>
> My key to success in a Linux-hostile environ was to start slow. The DNS
> servers were first. We ran them in test for 6 mnths before they'd let me go
> live with them. When I did, both machines were on IBM maintenance, and were
> running an (at the time) supported Linux system. I also had hardware flat
> out fail, and had *ZERO* downtime. This type of event spoke VOLUMES. Next,
> I upgraded everything to RH AS 3 before I left. As of today, the Linux
> environments (as *we* would all be aware) have been the most stable,
> zero-maintenance environments in-house. However, to Joe IT manager, this
> must be proven through time and trial. You can't just run in and install
> Gentoo and hope it works.
>
> In my time at the hospital, I can count total downtime (unscheduled) within
> an afternoon's cofee-break time. We *NEVER* went down without planning, and
> then only once (or less) a year. At one point, our systems were up more
> than the mainframe (it has to come down for an hour tice a year for
> time-change)
>
> Why do I say all this?
>
> While a simple throw-it and forget-it Linux system may be fine for Joe
> shopkeeper, it won't work in the Enterprise.
>
>
> Don't take that as a slam. It isn't. It's real-world, eterprise (read
> data-ceter) class expereience in mission critical (read patient's records
> and lives) data environments. If we want to take over the world in the
> Linux arena (read, oust Microsoft) you have to start grassroots and
> enterprise simultaneously, and converge toward Microsoft's territory from
> both ends so their only place to go is the margins...marginalized.
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
> Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> McKesson, Inc.
> (404) 293-8762
> **********
> >su -
> Password:
> # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> # rdev noah+beasts
> # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
>
> PGP Key: 0x6267F183
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w--
> O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++
> G+ e h---- r+++ y++++
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:ale-bounces";>mailto:ale-bounces</a> at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jeff
> Hubbs
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:43 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: RE: [ale] Distro Reply
>
> I guess what bothers me about the attitude described here (not saying that
> Jerald holds it) is that I had thought that part of the whole point of using
> Linux and FOSS in general is that you *weren't* dependent on a single source
> or *any* source of conditional support - the idea being that you as an IT
> implementor/integrator had inviolate say over how your software behaved.
> This "viable, supported alternative" talk sounds like nothing so much as
> wanting the ball and chain back.
>
> I *know* what it's like to be stuck in a certain kind of closed-source hell
> where you can't get your app fixed or your peripheral to behave properly for
> love *or* money, and I also know what it's like for paid support reps to
> turn their nose up at you because the way in which you needed to adapt their
> product to your needs was, in their eyes, "unsupported." There's nothing
> about the OS in question being Linux that keeps implementors out of that
> wasteland.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 17:26, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > Again, from a business perspective you'd never sell Debian as a
> > viable, supported alternative to the pinhead suits.
> >
> > They're getting better, it's just not considered viable on a
> > widespread basis yet.
> >
> > Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> > Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> > McKesson, Inc.
> > (404) 293-8762
> > **********
> > >su -
> > Password:
> > # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> > # rdev noah+beasts
> > # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> >
> > PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> >
> > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > Version: 3.12
> > GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- O M+ V PS-
> > PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++
> > G+ e h---- r+++ y++++
> > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:ale-bounces";>mailto:ale-bounces</a> at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> > Raylynn Knight
> > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 5:12 PM
> > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > Subject: Re: [ale] Distro Reply
> >
> > On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 12:41 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > > John P. Healey wrote:
> > > > Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> writes:
> > > >
> > > >>Yeah... I don't get that either. The most mature products on the
> > > >>planet are not an option...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > He's probably looking to broaden his horizons and explore
> > > > packaging systems that aren't rpm based. Also, I fail to see how
> > > > Debian is any less mature than redhat, mandrake, and fedora.
> > >
> > > Stable Debian running a 2.2 kernel. To me, that is not mature, that
> > > is old. Personal opinion.
> > >
> > Stable Debian is 3.0r4 released on 1 January 2005. Debian supports
> > many hardware architectures, some of which only have a 2.2 kernel.
> > Debian 3.0 was originally released 19 July 2002 so the default install
> > kernel is a 2.2 based kernel, however a 2.4 kernel is optional and
> > available on
> > x86 hardware at boot time.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale";>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a>
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale";>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
>
--
James P. Kinney III \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \ one Linux user /
Local Net Solutions,LLC \ at a time. /
770-493-8244 \.___________________________./
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.localnetsolutions.com";>http://www.localnetsolutions.com</a>
GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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