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- <li><em>date</em>: Mon Jan 3 23:22:23 2005</li>
- <li><em>from</em>: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)</li>
- <li><em>in-reply-to</em>: <[email protected]></li>
- <li><em>references</em>: <[email protected]></li>
- <li><em>subject</em>: [ale] Distro Reply</li>
As long as the XP weak link is out of the picture, SELinux makes the
system _VERY_ hardened from internal and external attacks.
>
>
> Unfortunately, that's not what my most current book is about. I'll
> definitely look into it for the next one.
>
> Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> McKesson, Inc.
> (404) 293-8762
> **********
> >su -
> Password:
> # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> # rdev noah+beasts
> # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
>
> PGP Key: 0x6267F183
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w--
> O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++
> G+ e h---- r+++ y++++
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:ale-bounces";>mailto:ale-bounces</a> at ale.org] On Behalf Of James P.
> Kinney III
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:04 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: RE: [ale] Distro Reply
>
> I hope you are writing a book on how you did this, what the challenges were,
> what problems you had to overcome, etc. This is EXACTLY the kind of stuff
> that becomes more ammo for somewhere else to make the switch to sanity-based
> systems. The medical community is in dire straits with HIPPA on one hand and
> WinXP on the other. Several of my doctor clients are still using DOS apps
> (they _do_ work) because the smaller stuff is still not HIPPA compliant. The
> FOSS medical managment software is beta quality but some of it is very HIPPA
> savy. It's getting the foot in the door...
>
> On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 22:28, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > But you have to understand, that to foster widespread acceptance of
> > the Linuxes in the enterprise, we must drop our zealotry to a degree.
> > (I had to learn this the hard way, and speak of myself here)
> >
> > Something Microsoft has been so good at is embrace and extend. In the
> > Linux world, we still hav IT managers that were educated in the 60's
> > and 70's and view Linux as nothing more than a toy. If instead you
> > approach them with a small entry (DNS server, for instance) and
> > provide them all the trappings of their paid-for "supported" os, you've
> won.
> >
> > It doesn't matter that it isn't GNU/Linux. It doesn't matter that
> > it's "Free and Open". What matters to today's IT manager
> > (decreasingly so) is that when Linux admin X gets pissed and leaves,
> > he can call company Y to support solution Z. That's all he cares about.
> >
> > Again, from the ENTERPRISE perspective, we're newcomers to this game
> > with something to prove.
> >
> >
> > When I was at Our Lady of the Lake hospital, when I arrived in 2001,
> > there was *NO* Linux in house. Not desktop, not server. When I left,
> > there was RH on RS6000/Power PC, a clustered HIPAA compliant patient
> > radiology records system writing to Optical disks running on RH AS
> > 3.x. (Which, incidently, was used in the first hospital in America
> > going completely filmless in their entire radiology farm) I had 2 DNS
> > servers on IBM 435 machines with over 200 days uptime, running on RH
> > 9.x. The IBM p690 Regatta had a RedHat partition onboard, and we had
> > Linux 390 on the mainframe. Finally, the entire UNIX-based
> > Administration team was running in a 100% linux desktop environment. (11
> people).
> >
> >
> > ALL SERVING HOSPITAL PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENTS.
> >
> > My key to success in a Linux-hostile environ was to start slow. The
> > DNS servers were first. We ran them in test for 6 mnths before they'd
> > let me go live with them. When I did, both machines were on IBM
> > maintenance, and were running an (at the time) supported Linux system.
> > I also had hardware flat out fail, and had *ZERO* downtime. This type
> > of event spoke VOLUMES. Next, I upgraded everything to RH AS 3 before
> > I left. As of today, the Linux environments (as *we* would all be
> > aware) have been the most stable, zero-maintenance environments
> > in-house. However, to Joe IT manager, this must be proven through
> > time and trial. You can't just run in and install Gentoo and hope it
> works.
> >
> > In my time at the hospital, I can count total downtime (unscheduled)
> > within an afternoon's cofee-break time. We *NEVER* went down without
> > planning, and then only once (or less) a year. At one point, our
> > systems were up more than the mainframe (it has to come down for an
> > hour tice a year for
> > time-change)
> >
> > Why do I say all this?
> >
> > While a simple throw-it and forget-it Linux system may be fine for Joe
> > shopkeeper, it won't work in the Enterprise.
> >
> >
> > Don't take that as a slam. It isn't. It's real-world, eterprise
> > (read
> > data-ceter) class expereience in mission critical (read patient's
> > records and lives) data environments. If we want to take over the
> > world in the Linux arena (read, oust Microsoft) you have to start
> > grassroots and enterprise simultaneously, and converge toward
> > Microsoft's territory from both ends so their only place to go is the
> margins...marginalized.
> >
> > Thanks for listening.
> >
> > Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> > Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> > McKesson, Inc.
> > (404) 293-8762
> > **********
> > >su -
> > Password:
> > # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> > # rdev noah+beasts
> > # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> >
> > PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> >
> > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > Version: 3.12
> > GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- O M+ V PS-
> > PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++
> > G+ e h---- r+++ y++++
> > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:ale-bounces";>mailto:ale-bounces</a> at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> > Jeff Hubbs
> > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:43 PM
> > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > Subject: RE: [ale] Distro Reply
> >
> > I guess what bothers me about the attitude described here (not saying
> > that Jerald holds it) is that I had thought that part of the whole
> > point of using Linux and FOSS in general is that you *weren't*
> > dependent on a single source or *any* source of conditional support -
> > the idea being that you as an IT implementor/integrator had inviolate say
> over how your software behaved.
> > This "viable, supported alternative" talk sounds like nothing so much
> > as wanting the ball and chain back.
> >
> > I *know* what it's like to be stuck in a certain kind of closed-source
> > hell where you can't get your app fixed or your peripheral to behave
> > properly for love *or* money, and I also know what it's like for paid
> > support reps to turn their nose up at you because the way in which you
> > needed to adapt their product to your needs was, in their eyes,
> > "unsupported." There's nothing about the OS in question being Linux
> > that keeps implementors out of that wasteland.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 17:26, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > > Again, from a business perspective you'd never sell Debian as a
> > > viable, supported alternative to the pinhead suits.
> > >
> > > They're getting better, it's just not considered viable on a
> > > widespread basis yet.
> > >
> > > Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> > > Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> > > McKesson, Inc.
> > > (404) 293-8762
> > > **********
> > > >su -
> > > Password:
> > > # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> > > # rdev noah+beasts
> > > # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> > >
> > > PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> > >
> > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > > Version: 3.12
> > > GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- O M+ V
> > > PS-
> > > PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++
> > > G+ e h---- r+++ y++++
> > > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:ale-bounces";>mailto:ale-bounces</a> at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> > > Raylynn Knight
> > > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 5:12 PM
> > > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > > Subject: Re: [ale] Distro Reply
> > >
> > > On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 12:41 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > > > John P. Healey wrote:
> > > > > Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> writes:
> > > > >
> > > > >>Yeah... I don't get that either. The most mature products on
> > > > >>the planet are not an option...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > He's probably looking to broaden his horizons and explore
> > > > > packaging systems that aren't rpm based. Also, I fail to see
> > > > > how Debian is any less mature than redhat, mandrake, and fedora.
> > > >
> > > > Stable Debian running a 2.2 kernel. To me, that is not mature,
> > > > that is old. Personal opinion.
> > > >
> > > Stable Debian is 3.0r4 released on 1 January 2005. Debian supports
> > > many hardware architectures, some of which only have a 2.2 kernel.
> > > Debian 3.0 was originally released 19 July 2002 so the default
> > > install kernel is a 2.2 based kernel, however a 2.4 kernel is
> > > optional and available on
> > > x86 hardware at boot time.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale";>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a>
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > > Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date:
> > > 12/30/2004
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale";>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a>
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
> >
> --
> James P. Kinney III \Changing the mobile computing world/
> CEO & Director of Engineering \ one Linux user /
> Local Net Solutions,LLC \ at a time. /
> 770-493-8244 \.___________________________./
> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.localnetsolutions.com";>http://www.localnetsolutions.com</a>
>
> GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
> <jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659
> 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
>
>
--
James P. Kinney III \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \ one Linux user /
Local Net Solutions,LLC \ at a time. /
770-493-8244 \.___________________________./
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.localnetsolutions.com";>http://www.localnetsolutions.com</a>
GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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